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Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Harry tompson — Wed, 09 Jul 2008 04:22:45 -0000

Hey, I agree with Caleb/shooter. It's true. Very true. The way that this event is now there is no reason for the Org not to have workmans comp. a somewhat decent wage and so forth. Those people, despite the hooliganism, work their asses off and should be compensated accordingly. Those idiots that came out of the BM office, don't know them, never saw them.

It's a very important issue and a valid one. The days of volunteerism is coming to an end unless your a Newbie and want to join in on the ranks. (unfortunately, there is no short supply) Wow, sort of reminds me of the hippies back in the 60's getting in on whatever act. Anyway, Volunteer means sucker at this point. In the beginning as with all things, sure we volunteered and participated. We wanted to get this thing off the ground and do it! Now, hey its floating and so should the LLC meet the workers needs. I only do it because I enjoy being with my crew. Definetly not for the money which is little mind you or the ORG. And not for Larry Harvey either! The other thing is that most of the workers who do get paid really fucking enjoy this whole crazy mess and stick by each other thru thick and thin and just want to keep doing it. It's a lifestyle, but they need to support themselves somewhat even though it may be seasonal. The org do "burn" a lot people, and that's what pisses everybody off. They use their skills and ingenuity and once somebody either screws up or gets burned out, they say Saynora and move on without batting an eye! And yes, everyone wants to get noticed for the work they did. "Hey Dad, Mom, look what I did!".........."Yes, dear, that was nice. Now could you get on with it and move out of the house!" Yeah, a lot of people just want to feel appreciated. But hey, we are also a tough bunch and have the mantra of "quit your F*ing whining" Your here to push yourself to the limit and love it. Builds character! So we fluctuate between being a bad ass and not being taken for granted. Carry on Caleb/Shooter/Fidel/Chobber!

H.T.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

marisa — Sun, 02 Sep 2007 01:29:08 -0000

these burning man people remind me of Scientologist bullies! i feel sorry for the workers that have to be scared to talk, i mean to me burning man is just a giant drugfest hidden behind art.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

SierraNightTide — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 14:06:08 -0000

"Damn Hippies! They say they want to save the world but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad." - South Park

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Eric Kopit — Thu, 12 Apr 2007 16:42:25 -0000

Three-headed monkeys eat thrice as much.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

THAT Andi — Mon, 09 Apr 2007 17:22:00 -0000

At the time of the protest there was over 100 Regional Contacts inside the BM office totally pumped up after our first day of our first ever summit. Before the protest there were rumors about it flying around, many of us thought it was a joke, something concocted for our amusement. As the protest started everyone was confused as to what it was all about.

I have to admit I was in the corner conference room with all of the others laughing and watching the protest. None of us knew what it was about, we were all having a lot of fun with it in the BM spirit. Some RCs went down there to have fun or participate, or "counter-demonstrate" as you call it, but it was all in fun. My favorite sign was Tall Tom (an RC from upstate NY) holding up a "NO SPECTATORS" sign for all of us looking down from above.

If they wanted to have a more serious protest maybe they shouldn't have done it when there were 100-150 RCs in the building. RCs tend to be quite loyal to BRC LLC mainly because Regionals are building community, supporting interactive art, and building local organizations much as BRC LLC has done and is doing. We have learned a LOT from them and they are learning a LOT from us. There is no hierarchal control (from BRC LLC to Regionals) as some of you fantasize about but there is a LOT of cross pollination and a LOT of respect paid.

THAT Andi

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Billy Bibbit — Sat, 17 Mar 2007 16:15:42 -0000

Burning Man has ALWAYS been a corporate event, which is something that habituees of the event steadfastly deny even in light of these recent events. You pay money to a corporate body that setups, maintains, and breaks down the area. Its organized, controlled, and someone is there to collect money. Thats a corporate event kids. The fact that attendees have been forking over ticket money under the mistaken belief that they were participating in some "be in" is their mistake. I find it amazing how strong is the Gen X need for their version of the "60s". Kids Burning Man is Woodstock wannabee. Dropping acid , painting yourself blue, and wandering around drooling in some alleged form of personal expression is okay I suppose BUT its not going to give you your "Age of Aquarius". Stick with the jam band scene. At least it isn't nearly as pretentious as is Burning Man.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Ian — Fri, 16 Mar 2007 13:49:46 -0000

Many people who are whistle blowers have a grudge against the corporation they work for. The point here is that Burning Man is now a large theatrical production, akin to a haunted house or other participatory theater event. They are a legal entity that has a large impact on our economy and the culture. This is a big responsibility.

It seems that there are legitimate concerns about their labor practices and treatment of workers. This is not the kind of thing an organization should try to sidestep. If this is the first time these concerns have been raised, they should confront them in public, through a public process. Any organization that has workers needs to abide by a minimum code of ethics and standards because they are responsible for the health and wellbeing of their peopleâ€”independent contractor or not.

Any time you have this many people participating in an event, bad things will happen. That is not the problem. The problem arises when the organization responsible for the infrastructure of the event handles these bad things in an immoral way. It seems that there is enough information, based on the above comments, to warrant further investigation of the labor practices of Burning Man.

The event is very fun, and the majority of the people are good folks who want to have a good time. Burning Man (the organization) shouldn't create an environment where worker injuries, workplace safety issues, unfair pay and unfair employment practices interfere with the running of a healthy culture/business.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

henry — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:33:37 -0000

I think the moral of the story is that protestors are, generally, ineffectual idiots. If they were not ineffectual idiots, then they would be doing something that actually solves the problem instead of blocking traffic and causing noise pollution. The only time protestors are effective is if they actually represent a significant (in numbers and political importance) portion of the population; e.g. civil rights protests, million man, etc.

I'm not saying they don't have the right to do it; they certainly do. I'm just saying that it serves no purpose other than providing some sort of warm fuzzy feeling to the protestors because they can enjoy the illusion of actually accomplishing something.

And did Ralph Nader say WHICH working people? Last I checked, billionaires were working people too. So keep driving your gas-guzzlers to Black Rock, and bring your diesel generators and propane tanks because Chevron, Exxon et al needs your support!

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

MonaM — Mon, 26 Feb 2007 14:28:05 -0000

Oh the irony. Doesn't all this prove that BM is nothing more than a corporate event which is something they have denied being all along ?
This is a classic management worker battle despite the insistence of many festival goers that BM is some type of blissful, neo-hippy commune that is superior to all forms of existence. Get real. Its just an extension of adolescence paid for by daddy's credit cards so you can avoid taking on responsibilities commensuareat with being an ADULT !

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Gem Law — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:42:15 -0000

To hell with Caleb and his brownbagged retards.
Three people does not a protest make.
He is a rabid dog employed by John Law and
should be treated as such.
Go to the BurningMan tribe to find out
the pathetic ego that this man has .
Gem

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

cowboyangel — Fri, 23 Feb 2007 02:45:53 -0000

In The Know, Ralph Nader once told a graduating class of law students, the highest thing they could do for society was to work for justice and better conditions for working people. That is an activity that requires one to go outside sometime, and even hold a sign on the street. If there's a problem and no one talks about it, there's no problem.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Bill Putz — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:48:55 -0000

>(that was not a dalmatian with a poodleâ€™s head glued on, that was Jackie, my friend and recently shorn poodle wearing her neoprene chest warmer.)

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

In the Know — Thu, 22 Feb 2007 09:39:53 -0000

This "discussion" sucks. Mostly people who have no idea what they're talking about bashing (or defending) things they're so far removed from, they can't possibly make an informed argument either way. "I heard this", "so and so did that", "Borg is rich and run by corporate assholes", it's the same crap all the time, and it seems to never get old to you guys. Why don't you all quit bitching and actually do something with your lives. The squeaky wheel makes the front page. The person working their ass of quietly in the corner turns a small beach gathering into an incredibly intricate to produce, progressive, challenging, AND culturally significant world-reaching event that does it's best to maintain it's integrity in a world where it seems everyone wants everyone else to fail. I think Jello Biafra said it best once:

"But what can one of us do?
Against all that money and power trying to crush us into roaches...

We won't destroy society in a day
Until we change ourselves first from the inside out
You can start, by not lying so much
and treating other people like dirt
it's so easy not to base our lives on how much we can stand
you know it feels go to lift that monkey of our backs"

So keep this in mind:

Caleb's an asshole, but is also articulate and poignant
The Borg has flaws and does their best in the face of everything
If you go to Burning Man to be cool, you took the wrong bus
There's always gonna be problems, maybe try help instead of pointing fingers
Pushing always causes a reaction. From the Borg, this reaction is almost always positive; change will happen, things take time
No, I don't work there
Get up off your lazy blog and go outside!!

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

cowboyangel — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:37:16 -0000

Thanks Jablowmee, I think your post speaks the best to what really is going on here. I am the guy, btw, who filmed this thing, (that was not a dalmatian with a poodle's head glued on, that was Jackie, my friend and recently shorn poodle wearing her neoprene chest warmer.)

The video is still sparking alot of interest, as of Feb21 6:30pm pst it's gotten about 4718 views and still going strong. I have to say, I'm a bit dismayed at all the personal attack going on around this especially at the protesters. They were sincere and plan follow up efforts. Burning Man is rapidly moving towards some interesting changes, and greater respect for its workforce is one of those.
Hey visit, http://bpathvideo.blogspot.com too....lsquid copied my code from there, but's ok. My site has alot of interesting videos as well.

cowboyangel

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Haywood Jablowmee — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:46:06 -0000

Sorry. I can't print my real name.
I work for Burning Man. I would most likely be fired if they knew my identity. The squeaky wheel gets the ax.

I do believe that the Borg are generally a caring bunch of people, but I also know that they don't take criticism well. And well, they do make errors in judgment at times. And, fuck yeah, they could take much, much better care of their workers. They are not wholey evil, but they are pretty fucked sometimes.

I will go through and respond in order to the comments already written.

No, there was not an outbreak of dysentary, but there was a serious outbreak of what was in all likelihood a norovirus. I had it. Almost everyone I know that was working got it. Not just DPW -- all departments. Some people got it repeatedly. It was scary. It would have been a crisis if it hadn't more-or-less burnt itself out. Our medics coudn't have dealt with a city of 40,000 people vommiting and shitting. Emergency services were on it and handled it well. And no it was not food related. Our commisary takes good care of us.

Yes, we could use more sanitizer and hand washing stations. That would have helped.

Yes, Burning Man has cut workers pay. I don't know if it was two, three, or four years ago, but the clean up crew used to get paid $75 a day for a shitty days work. Now they get $45 a day. That really sucks. Attendance increases every year. Ticket prices have increased. The Borg's profits have increased. What gives?

I'm glad Caleb is bringing all of this to peoples' attention. Yeah, maybe he has an ax to grind, but that doesn't make what he was saying untrue. He also has a ton of friends that still work for BM that are glad he's speaking up, because they/we can't. Someone declared the woman in the bag a coward for not showing her face. She can't afford to show her face if she wants to work again. Someone also wrote her off as Caleb's girlfriend. I know for a fact the she worked DPW last year and lives with two other BM workers. The other guy that someone claimed had nothing to do with DPW worked for BM years ago and injured his back on the job. He claims that Burning Man did absolutely nothing for him. He will never work for Burning Man again, but he was protesting for his friends that work there every year.

It is illegal that BM does not provide workers comp. for volunteers. It is illegal that may of the jobs performed by DPW (and other crews) don't come anywhere close to meeting OSHA standards.

It's not illegal, merely a shame that BM feeds people while they work (some people that are on playa for a month before the event) and then stops feeding them during the event. They have to fend for themselves. When are they supposed to get supplies? And is that any way to show appreciation to someone that has just given you a month of their life?

Sure BM couldn't happen w/o volunteers. All the more reason to treat them right.

Tonja, you have no idea. There is no way that a city of 40,00 people could be run all volunteer. I'm glad your little regional can work that way. We can't. Work sober? We do. Don't speak of which you know nothing about. The death waiver is inappropriate (and I think illegal) for workers and volunteers.

Thanks, Caleb et. al for speaking up.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Darryl van Rhey — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:38:47 -0000

A couple of years ago, one of the (male) principals of BMORG was involved in a very ugly assault on a woman that was subsequently covered up by the organization (the person who committed the assault is still one of BMORGâ€™s senior executives, and is still in a position of power over female employees). You can read an account of it in Piss Clear here:

http://www.pissclear.org/PD...

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Michael — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:58:28 -0000

I thought hippies were supposed to criticize how other people run THEIR businesses, not try to run one themselves.

This is what happens when you try to apply all that hippyish idealistic crap to the real world. Things fall apart.

It took 40 years, but welcome to reality.

You mean everyone from the janitor to the CEO can't make $1 million a year, and the company will stay profitable? This is an OUTRAGE!

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Kelly — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:38:07 -0000

So, I don't want to comment on Shooter's whole thing - let's just say that an event that promotes radical individualism as much as Burningman is going to end up with lots of disagreement within its ranks - and I do consider Shooter as 'within', even though he hasn't worked directly for the LLC for a few years. I will mention that Shooter DID work full-time for the LLC at the ranch for many months, including being part of the tiny crew that maintained the work ranch in the dead of the Nevada winter, so he certainly has a different perspective than the volunteer-for-a-few-weeks folks.

However, some of the stuff being brought up in this discussion needs to be addressed. specifically, the death of Craig in 2001. I worked DPW that year, I knew Craig a little, knew the driver of the truck a lot more. Craig was riding on the back of a flatbed that was hauling someone's personal trailer because he specifically WANTED to. It had nothing to do with work - he was getting a ride from the work ranch to the playa in the early evening and chose to ride on the flatbed instead of the cab, bcause standing on the back of a truck zooming down the highway is relly, really fun. People did shit like that all the time back then, and the danger was part of the thrill and an accepted fact. That kind of thing was part of the joy of working DPW. And predictably, the tragic accident that occured put it all to a stop.

In hindsight, yeah, it was a bad decision on his part and maybe the driver's to let him do it - there's a big difference between being in the back of a pickup and a flatbed hauling a big ass trailer. But in the end, he took the risk on his own and the dice came up snake eyes, that's all. And the fact the the event was - for awhile, not really so much anyomore - one of the last places where you had that kind of freedom is what made it so great, to me anyway.

As for the plague this year during the build - yeah there was a really nasty horrendous stomach virus of some sort that was laying peo-le low left and right. But considering that the LLC was set up just the same as it had been for years in terms of food prep and sanitation and nothing like this hadever happened before, it seems preety dumb to blame it on them. People are in really close contact for weeks out there, it'd be very easy for something like that to spread if someone brings it in. It's not like anyone had the slightest clue about the gestation period of the bug, how it was transmitted, or what. Don't know what the LLC could have done that they didn't do.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

geekboy — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 14:20:11 -0000

Shit, I never got paid. Wah wah.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Tonja Deleon — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 13:43:54 -0000

Just makes me appreciate my regional for NOT having paying positions. EVERYONE IS A VOLUNTEER. Maybe we will never grow to the numbers BM has GOOD it forces us to VOLUNTEER! Meaning it is alot of hard work and no pay will definately help keep the weeds of non-doers OUT. If you don't like it don't GO.

Tonja

p.s. the death waiver........we all take a chance going out there. Stay sober while working and it shouldn't be a problem!

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

John — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 12:21:01 -0000

Actually as I understand it, the accident involved the individual riding in the back of a flatbed truck carrying gear to the event sight. He was crushed when the cargo shifted, so in fact he was on the job at the time. These deets are not in the report, but something I heard directly from a DPW employee before the event. Take it with a grain of salt if you will.

Here's the deal... I am most likely to take the side of BM, because I think that at their core the organizers are all smart, caring, responsible individuals.

What I saw in that video, however, was a well-spoken protester voicing legitimate concerns who was then confronted by a bunch of dinks who had the nerve to mock people talking about issues of safety and lively-hood. If they are Burning Man reps, then they are acting on behalf of the organization. If the organization disapproves of their behavior, then they should step forward and say so, and seriously consider if they want individuals such as this acting for them in the regions.

Verbal, are you saying that people who do the dirty work after the event don't deserve a fair wage? Should the organizers take a cut in pay so that it could be said of them that they are just doing it for the love of the event? Come on... the event is big enough that it can't live on volunteers alone, and it's pay scale needs to be in line with comparable types of work. And certainly the safety issues need to be addressed.

I've had plenty of run ins with drunken DPW workers. Frankly I think they can act like assholes, but it doesn't mean I don't think they should be compensated fairly, and their safety be of major concern.

Bottom line... I don't want to see Burning Man officials act like a bunch of retards when it comes to serious issues like this.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Verbal — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:51:17 -0000

Wow. Did you actually read the link you posted? A quote - "The first fatality was a DPW volunteer who died in a motor vehicle accident on the highway a few days before the event." If I get in a car accident on my way to work, my employer won't settle my expenses, either. That's what my personal medical/auto/disability insurance is for.

I'm not saying that these workers don't have valid complaints - they certainly may... but where are the workers who were *actually* injured? BM employs hundreds and hundreds of workers... and only 3 show up? I find that curious.

The "counter-protestors"? What a bunch of jackasses. Watching this video was like watching a train wreck in slow motion... ugh.

As far as injury at the event itself goes - read your ticket! Enough said.

And, as for the low wages - if you are in it for the money, Burning Man DPW is not the right place to look. Everyone I know who volunteers does it for love of the event, and out of their own desire to contribute - and they would continue doing it, even for no money at all. Digging fence posts and picking up trash is not going to make you rich - no matter WHO you work for... but if you are unhappy about the unfair wages you are receiving, then you have the right to find a new job.

And, did she say DYSENTERY? And, hand-washing stations? Puhleeze. Anyone here catch the "Xara Plague"? It was just a horrible flu gone wild - perpetuated and spread by a thousand people kissing each other on the mouth, sharing water bottles, and staying up too late in the cold.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

Sigh — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 05:28:11 -0000

His name was Craig Nielsen. He died before the event in 2001 and it was f-ing devastating. The way he died was dumb and due to the lack of forsight by many. The behavior that caused it is now utterly forbidden and will get you a face full of enraged veteran DPWer if you try it.

His death should not be used in conjuncture with this debate and it is horrible that Caleb is doing so. Craigs death, if it must be used for a cause, it should be for vehicle safety education and responsable vehicle usage, not this.

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

reality check — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 04:22:33 -0000

John, the link you provided indicates that a DPW volunteer died in a motor vehicle accident... I don't see anything there that says exactly what he was doing or that screams "It's the LLC's fault and they should pay!". I'm not saying there isn't more to the story, but I *am* saying that we should be hearing more of the story before deciding we all know exactly what happened.

And I'm not trying to "swiftboaty" smear anyone, I just want to see other sources on this stuff besides a couple of pissed off ex employees. What do you have against getting more information?

Re: Burning Man Protest Protested by Burning Man Protesters | Laughing Squid

David — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 04:08:58 -0000

If thease individuals have real concerns with employment practices of Burning Man. (A signing of a Death Waiver, before employment . That as an organiser, concerns me automatically. )

They should gather up the employees who have a beef and then seek an Organisation for official representation to collective bargining. As Burning Man is a cultural event. I would suggest they approach I.A.T.S.E. ( International Alliance Of Theatrical Stage Employees ) Check with any local to find out which one would have jurisdiction over the California region in which Burning Man produces it 's main event. Or, where they have their Production office.